Wednesday, April 9, 2008

Let's find out the truth

Update: Interesting research from the Dailykos (Chinese translation), which seems to echo the message in this seemingly "far-fetched" video.

(update 2: the GFW is blocking this post, such that my whole front page was blocked. so i have shift the date to March (instead of Apr) so that my blogspot page can appear normally inside China)

--
An Anon commentator left some good links regarding casulaty of the "March 10-14 crackdown" here. Let's document (and update) on this.

This is a list of 40 names from the pro-T1-bet camp (which is now gone, not sure if it is due to the GFW or took down by the webmaster) released on March 26. Google brought me to another site where the list is still available

  • Update on Death Toll from Tibet demonstrations
    Mar 27, 2008 in News
    Update for Tuesday, 25 March 2008, last updated 3 pm (IST)
    While the most recent death toll from the demonstrations in Tibet is around 140, we are releasing the names and details of 40 identified people.
    Since the start of the Demonstrations in Tibet on March 10, there has been a steady rise in the death toll. As the demonstrations continue to spread vastly to many areas in Tibet, the number of people who have died from the brutal military and police suppression during the peaceful demonstrations is astounding.
    While we have confirmed information on the death toll from the demonstrations so far, it has been extremely difficult to get the details due to all the restrictions that have been imposed by Chinese authorities, especially since March 10th.
    The most recent death toll from the demonstrations in Tibet is around 140 and we are releasing the names and details of 40 identified people. While we do have reliable information on other individuals killed during the demonstrations, we are gathering more comprehensive information before we release more names from the death toll list.
    We have reliable sources confirming the death of numerous individuals killed during the recent demonstrations; however, we are still in the process of gathering more details (such as name and place of residence). For instance, while we can confirm that during the protest in Dabpa County (Karze “Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture,” Sichuan province), an elderly person, a young girl and a boy were shot and killed by the Chinese military, further details are still being gathered.
    Many of the dead bodies from the recent demonstrations are being turned into the People’s Procuratorates instead of being returned to their respective families. This has also made it more difficult to gather details on the death toll.
  • S. No. / NAME/ AGE/GENDER/PLACE OF RESIDENCE/BIRTH/ DETAILS
  • 1 Phurbu 37 M
    Lhasa(Ch:Lasa), & TAR
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 2 Sonam Norbu 27 M
    Derge,(Ch:Dege), Karze (Ch:Ganzi)TAP,Sichuan Province
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 3 Azin around 30 M
    Palyul(Ch:Baiyu),Karze (Ch:Ganzi) TAP, Sichuan Province
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 4 Sonam Lhamo 21 F
    Palyul(Ch:Baiyu),Karze (Ch:Ganzi) TAP, Sichuan Province
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 5 Dhargye 22 M
    Damshung (Ch:Dangxiong),Lhasa Municipality,TAR;
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 6 Kunchok Samphel 21 M
    Damshung (Ch:Dangxiong), Lhasa Municipality, TAR;
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 7 Lhakpa Tsering 21 M
    Lhasa(Ch:Lasa),TAR
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 8 Thupten Tsering 24 M
    Lhasa(Ch:Lasa),TAR
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 9 Tenzin Samdup 39 M
    Lhasa(Ch:Lasa),TAR
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 10 Rigzin Choenyi 26 F
    Shugseb Nunnery, Lhasa
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 11 Lobsang Tsepel 31 M
    Sera Monastery, Lhasa TAR
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 12 Ngodup 28 M
  • Tibet University, Lhasa, "TAR"
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 13 Lobsang Doma 23 F
    Garu Nunnery
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 14 Ngawang Thekchen 20 M
    Taklung Drak Monastery, Toelung
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 15 Dhondup Dolma 19 F Student
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 16 Dechen Dolma 57 F
    Lhasa Drashi, "TAR"
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 17 Phurbu Tsamchoe 20 F
    Lhasa,"TAR"
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 18 Tashi Dorjee 22 M
    Nagchu (Naqu), Nagchu(Naqu) Prefecture
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 19 Tashi Tsering M
    Bathang(Batang)County, Karze(Ganzi)"TAP" Sichaun Province
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 20 Kalsang Yeshi M
    Markham(Ch:Mangkang) Chamdo(Ch:Changdu) Prefecture, "TAR"
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 21 Penpa (monk) 29 M
    Toelung(Ch:Dangxiong), Lhasa Municipality
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 22 Tenzin 20 F
    Toelung(Ch:Dangxiong), Lhasa Municipality
    Died on 14 March in Lhasa
  • 23 Jinpa M
    Phenpo, 3 hours northeast to Lhasa
    Died on 15 March in Phenpo
  • 24 Thokmey M
    Gyangtse, Ramoche
    Died on 23 March evening in Lhasa
  • 25 Ngogha M
    Karze (Ch:Ganzi), Karze (Ch:Ganzi) "TAP", Sichaun Province
    Died on 18 March in Karze
  • 26 Jamyang/Jampel M
    Karze (Ch:Ganzi), Karze (Ch:Ganzi) "TAP", Sichaun Province
    Died on 18 March in Karze
  • 27 Tashi Gyaltsen 18 M
    Karze (Ch:Ganzi), Karze (Ch:Ganzi) "TAP", Sichaun Province
    Died on 18 March in Karze
  • 28 Tsedup M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), Ngapa(Ch:Aba) "TAP", Sichaun Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 29 Tashi Wangchuk M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), Ngapa(Ch:Aba) "TAP", Sichaun Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 30 Gegyam M
    Soruma,Ngapa(Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 31 Gephen Thaklo M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 32 Norbu M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 33 Lotse M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 34 Ngodup Tso F
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 35 Atisha around 25 M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 36 Sangye M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 37 Tsezin M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 38 Gonpo Lhagon around 30 M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 39 Pelkho M
    Ngapa (Ch:Aba), TAP; Sichuan Province
    Died on 16 March in Ngapa
  • 40 Rinchen M
    Machu(Ch:Maqu) County, Kanlho, TAP; Gansu Province
    Died on 18 March in Machu
and 4 more names released on April 2

  • 41 Kunga M Monk from Chokri monastery, Drakgo (Ch: Luhuo) County, Karze "Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture," Sichuan province Was shot and killed during demonstration on March 14
  • 42 Kyari around 36 M Resident of Khekor Township, Serthar (Ch: Seda) County, Karze "TAP," Sichuan province Killed on March 20 in Khekor Township
  • 43 Gyalpo 33 M Phenpo Lhundrup (Ch: Lingzhi) County, Lhasa Municipality Died on March 26 due to severe injuries sustained from beatings during demonstrations
  • 44 Dawa Male DagpoTownship, Phenpo Lhundrup (Ch: Lingzhi) County, Lhasa Municipality Died on March 27 due to severe injuries sustained from beatings during demonstrations

It is quite likely that the 140 or 150 number is an exaageration. But it is normal under such confused condition. Let's try to verify if the 44 is an honest number. Well, if there are a couple of them really died during 14th, before the riot, the the riot is probably justified.

  • I think the government said that 3 of the casulties (when the total was 12) were Tibetan fleeing arrest, "jumped from the building".

---


This is the refutal from the government

  • Tibet police: Victim list fabricated

    14:19, April 07, 2008
    People whose names were included on a list of riot victims given by the Dalai clique are still alive, an investigation by Lhasa police has found.The Dalai clique's "government-in-exile" on March 25 released the "names and details of 40 identified people" alleged to have died in the recent riots.
  • However, the Lhasa police bureau found five of the people are still alive or never existed. The other 35 people, whom the clique merely mentioned the birthplaces or residences of as "Lhasa, Tibet" or "Aba, Sichuan province", were impossible to locate, the police said.
  • The Dalai clique announced the death of 31-year-old Lobsang Tsepel in Sera Monastery. However, the police investigation found the monk, 36, was still in the monastery.
  • The investigation found there were 12 people whose names include Ngodup at Tibet University, and all of them were alive and still working there. The Dalai clique had said a 28-year-old by that name had been killed in the unrest.Also, Lobsang Doma, of the Garu Nunnery, was age 39 and alive - not 23 and dead, as the Dalai clique had claimed.There was nobody named Rigzin Choenyi in the Shugseb Nunnery, while the nunnery has two people whose names included only the Rigzin part, and both were alive.Also, there was nobody named Ngawang Thekchen in Taklung Drak Monastery, the investigation found.
  • .....Source: China Daily
Commentators below will be the judge (and also updaters). I think we all want the real truth.

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